24-1215p - Detailed Summary

The speaker transitions to the evening’s discussion, welcoming the audience and introducing the topic of being saved by faith, but not in the conventional sense. The discussion is not about whether faith or baptism saves, but rather about the broader concept of faith in relation to the physical and spiritual realms.

The speaker explains that humans exist in the physical or natural realm, which is distinct from the spiritual realm where God resides. The spiritual realm is hidden from the physical realm, and humans cannot see God and live, as stated in scripture. The discussion from the morning session is referenced, questioning why faith is necessary for salvation and why humans cannot walk by sight. The speaker notes that walking by sight is the opposite of walking by faith, and in the natural realm, humans lack sufficient information because God intentionally limits their access to the spiritual realm. The speaker cites Dale Tackett’s concept of the "natural cube," a metaphorical representation of the natural environment, which does not provide all answers, forcing even naturalists to rely on faith due to incomplete information.

The speaker defines faith using Hebrews 11, describing it as the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of things not seen. Faith is portrayed as a firmly held belief in the unseen, necessary because humans cannot see spiritual realities. The speaker uses analogies to illustrate this: believing the sun is shining when it is visible requires no faith, but believing it is up during a solar eclipse, when it is obscured, requires faith. This analogy underscores that faith is needed when experiential knowledge is limited, and humans lack sensory evidence of the spiritual realm.

The speaker elaborates on the two realms: the spiritual realm, where God and angels reside, and the physical realm, where humans live. Angels are spirits, as stated in Hebrews 1:7, and the spiritual realm is invisible to humans, with scriptures like 1 John 4:12 and Exodus 33:20 reinforcing that no one can see God and live. The speaker references historical events where God allowed individuals, such as Balaam (Numbers 22:31-33) and Elisha’s servant (2 Kings 6:15-17), to see the spiritual realm, but emphasizes that such occurrences are rare and only happen by God’s permission. The morning’s question is revisited: why does God not allow humans to see the spiritual realm?

The speaker explains that God deliberately hides the spiritual realm from the physical realm, citing Paul’s experience in paradise (2 Corinthians 12) where he heard inexpressible words he was not permitted to speak. This limitation forces humans in the physical realm to walk by faith, while beings in the spiritual realm walk by sight. The speaker surmises that this division is part of God’s plan of salvation, where faith is essential. Since salvation is by grace through faith, the limitation of information in the physical realm necessitates faith, making it integral to the salvation process.

The speaker discusses God’s plan before creation, which involved creating two realms and sentient beings—humans and angels—capable of choice. Both humans and angels are conscious and aware, able to choose to accept or reject God. This choice implies that some from both realms would accept God, while others would reject Him. The speaker notes that God’s plan, including the limitation of information in the physical realm, is designed to require faith for salvation.

The speaker explores the consequences of rejection in both realms, questioning whether humans and angels are treated the same. Scriptures like Jude 6, 2 Peter 2:4, and Hebrews 2:14-18 indicate that redemption is not offered to angels who sin, as Jesus came to help humans, not angels. The speaker highlights a key difference: humans reject God in ignorance due to limited information, while angels sin despite seeing God as He is in the spiritual realm. This ignorance is suggested as a reason for Jesus' prayer on the cross, asking for forgiveness for humans who "know not what they do."

The speaker describes humans as hybrid beings with physical (flesh) and spiritual (soul and spirit) components. The question is raised: what happens to salvation after death, when the soul and spirit return to the spiritual realm? The speaker argues that once humans enter the spiritual realm, where they can see God as He is, salvation is no longer offered, similar to angels. If humans die in their sins without accepting salvation by faith in the physical realm, they lose the opportunity for redemption, as God does not offer it in the spiritual realm.

The speaker concludes that humans are offered salvation because they live in the realm of faith, where they must walk by faith due to limited information. This necessity of faith is why humans are saved by faith, as opposed to beings in the spiritual realm, where sight eliminates the need for faith and thus the offer of salvation. The speaker emphasizes that no actions, such as indulgences, can change this once humans enter the spiritual realm, reinforcing the importance of faith in the physical realm.

The speaker recaps the discussion, using reverse engineering to understand God’s plan before creation. God created two realms: the spiritual, where beings walk by sight, and the physical, where beings walk by faith. Redemption is offered to those who walk by faith (humans) but not to those who walk by sight (angels). This plan, established before creation, underscores that humans know of the spiritual realm only through God’s revelation, not direct observation, reinforcing the necessity of faith for salvation.

The speaker continues discussing God’s plan before creation, emphasizing that it included the creation of two realms: spiritual and physical. God’s plan, involving Jesus and the Holy Spirit, was to create beings like themselves, spiritual in nature, and beings that are different, residing in the physical realm. The spiritual beings, such as angels, would know God as He is, being able to see and interact with Him directly.

The speaker references Job chapter 1, where angels, referred to as the "sons of God," interact with God, including Satan, who converses with God about his activities on earth. God asks Satan if he has considered Job, illustrating the direct interaction between the spiritual realm and God. In contrast, humans in the physical realm cannot see God, as seeing Him would result in death, as previously discussed.

The speaker explains that upon death, humans return to the spiritual realm and can see God, but salvation is no longer available at that point. If a person is saved before death, they transition to the spiritual realm without issue. Using reverse engineering, the speaker deduces that God’s plan involved creating beings with the ability to choose, knowing that some would accept Him and others would reject Him.

The speaker elaborates on God’s plan for those who reject Him. In the spiritual realm, beings like angels, who experience God directly and see His glory, are not offered redemption if they sin, as their rejection is deliberate and informed. Conversely, humans in the physical realm are kept ignorant of God, unable to see or know the spiritual realm firsthand. God limits their information, revealing only what is necessary, so that if humans sin, they do so in ignorance, not fully knowing God as He is.

The speaker connects human ignorance to Jesus' prayer on the cross, "forgive them for they do not know what they do," suggesting that this ignorance allows for the possibility of salvation. The speaker questions why God does not reveal Himself fully, explaining that if He did, salvation would no longer be offered, as humans would no longer need faith. Salvation is contingent on faith because humans must take God at His word without direct evidence.

The speaker notes that the spiritual realm was created first, referencing Job 38:4-7, where God questions Job about his whereabouts during the creation of the earth. God asks who determined the earth’s measurements and laid its cornerstone, while the "morning stars" sang and the "sons of God" shouted for joy. The speaker clarifies that these "sons of God" are angels, not humans, as humans were not yet created during the laying of the earth’s foundation, which occurred over the first five days of creation before man was created on the sixth day.

The speaker cites Nehemiah 9:6 to confirm that God created the heavens, including the "heaven of heavens" and all their hosts, meaning angels. Unlike God, who is from everlasting to everlasting (no beginning or end), angels are eternal but have a beginning, created by God. The speaker emphasizes that only God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is truly timeless, while angels and humans have a finite beginning but are eternal in one direction (no end).

The speaker argues that it was necessary for God’s plan to create angels first, allowing them to witness the creation of the physical universe. This is evident because God did it, indicating it was part of His plan. The spiritual realm, where redemption is not offered, was created first, and angels observed the creation of the physical realm, where redemption would be offered, though this was not yet known to them at the time.

The speaker surmises that angels were created on the first day, as Genesis 1:1 states that God created the heavens (plural), including the heaven of heavens and their hosts, as confirmed by Nehemiah 9:6. Angels, like Adam, were created complete and immediately functional, intelligent from the moment of creation, similar to Adam’s ability to think, speak, and name animals. There is no scriptural indication that angels were created before the first day, as nothing existed prior to that except God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

The speaker posits that time began when God started creating, referencing a previous lesson about the beginning of time. Angels and humans have only experienced existence within time, while God existed before time, in a state of timelessness. The speaker cites Jesus' statement, "before Abraham was, I am," to illustrate God’s timeless nature, existing in all time simultaneously, unlike angels and humans, who are eternal but bound by time from their creation.

The speaker describes how angels, created before the physical universe, witnessed the entirety of creation, including the separation of waters, the creation of the atmosphere, vegetation, fish, birds, and beasts, as detailed in Job 38:4-7. They shouted for joy during these events, experiencing the spectacular nature of God’s creation, which they observed from the first day onward, though they did not witness their own creation.

The speaker discusses angels witnessing the seventh day, when God rested, questioning whether God needed rest due to fatigue or if it was to establish a pattern for humanity, akin to Jesus' baptism to fulfill righteousness (Matthew 3:15). Jesus, though sinless, was baptized to align with His followers' requirements. The speaker leaves open the question of why God wanted angels to witness creation, noting it was deliberate and part of His plan, as evidenced by its occurrence.

The speaker concludes by referencing Genesis 1, noting that on the sixth day, God completed creation, and on the seventh day, He rested, declaring everything He made as "very good." This proclamation implies that at that time, neither angels nor humans had fallen, including Satan, Adam, and Eve. At this point, there was no sin, indicating a state of perfection in both realms before any rebellion occurred.

The speaker concludes the session by reflecting on the state of creation before the fall, noting that everything was beautiful and perfect at that time. Following this reflection, the speaker extends an invitation to anyone who feels compelled to come forward, likely for spiritual commitment or response, while the group stands and sings together.