26-0906sc Transcript

(0:04) Romans the 12th chapter, well actually in the 13th chapter, do I have any Father in (0:11) prayer? Dear Heavenly Father, we’re very grateful for this day and for the (0:16) opportunity we have to come together as brothers and sisters and students of your (0:21) Word. We ask that you give us a readily understanding and be able to (0:31) comprehend it and have insights. We pray that you bless us with that ability as (0:39) your students of your Word.

We’re very grateful for the measure of health and (0:43) safety that you’ve provided us that enables us to be able to be here this (0:48) day. We’re grateful for your blessings in every way. We pray these things in Jesus (0:53) Christ’s name, amen.

Okay, I like the beginning of this session because I (1:03) think that chapter 12 starts to a different concept or different (1:10) conversation that Paul wants us to pick up on. And I picked up with, I tried to (1:23) read the book of Romans through at least once every week. And somewhere (1:32) along the way, I got the concept of a word that would, that helps me (1:40) completely understand, not necessarily completely, but definitely gives me a (1:47) better confidence in my study.

And that word is defy. We use the word sin and (2:02) sometimes I think the word sin is just run over and not really comprehend (2:10) everything that sin stands for. But what is sin? It’s defying God.

And we’re, the (2:23) average person defies God whenever they choose to not completely go by God’s (2:33) Word. And in this particular session, you can see that a person will argue (2:41) basically with Paul as he’s writing these things under the inspiration of (2:48) the Holy Spirit. And especially the next 12 chapters, or the next 13th, 14th, 15th (2:55) chapter is bringing out some things that we argue with.

And when we’re arguing (3:04) with it, Paul’s saying, don’t argue with it. Why are we arguing with it? We’re (3:08) trying to rationalize why we don’t want to do it. And if we’re arguing with (3:13) ourselves and saying that we don’t want to do it, we’re defying God.

In other words, (3:20) we’re not going to go with it. We’re trying to find out some way we can get (3:26) around from doing it. And whenever I think in those terms, the last part of (3:32) chapter 12 is really one of those things that really starts us out with arguing (3:41) with God about, you know, because this is flesh arguing with us.

I ran this cross (3:51) sandy last time. But anyway, the wrestling that we have is whether or not we’re going (4:02) to go with the flesh or go with the Spirit. And so if we’re going with the (4:09) flesh, we’re defying God.

If we’re going with the Spirit, we’re in agreement with (4:15) God. And we are lining ourselves up with God and saying, yes, God, I’m going to (4:22) obey you. I’m going to approach my particular problems and trials in life (4:28) the way that you suggest that we do it.

And so here in the bottom part of chapter (4:35) 12, starting with verse 14, we see this is where we can start arguing with God. And (4:43) the flesh saying to us, no, get even. You know, one part of it, I can’t quote it or (4:56) I can’t take you right to the passage, but especially in Psalms, David is pointing (5:02) out to us that if we’ve been wronged by a person and we’re relying on God to avenge (5:13) us, and then we see that hard times are coming on the person that wronged us, we (5:20) have a tendency to say, aha, they’ve got it coming to them.

God says, if you do (5:28) that, I’m going to bring it back on you, too. Do you realize that? We don’t have (5:35) the right to rejoice in somebody else’s problems, thinking that God is avenging (5:46) us. They’re getting their just dues.

So when we look at chapter 12, picking up (5:56) in verse 14, take a look at it real quick, because this is where we wrestle with the (6:02) flesh. The flesh has approached it from this standpoint. And of course, the whole (6:08) world basically lives by the flesh, and they will defy God in what God says, how (6:19) we ought to handle our particular problems.

So he says here, in verse 14, (6:27) bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse. Well, the flesh says, ha, you (6:35) got to be kidding. But the Spirit, if we have the Spirit of God living within us, (6:41) then we’re going to be willing to do what God is suggesting that we do, even though (6:49) it rubs us the wrong way.

And it rubs me the wrong way, in terms of blessing those (6:58) who harm me, because I’ve had that particular issue, and you probably know what I’m (7:05) referring to. So bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse. Rejoice with (7:13) those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.

And he’s talking about the individuals (7:21) that have just abused you, and just maligned you, perhaps. And so he’s saying to you, (7:32) forget that. Rejoice with them when they rejoice, and weep with them who weep.

Well, (7:38) the flesh would say just the opposite, wouldn’t it? But we’re being asked to have the Spirit (7:46) guide us, and we’re being asked to have God’s Spirit within us. And so, yes, if we (7:53) do what the flesh says, we’re defying God. God says, this is the way you should handle (7:59) your problem.

And so, as a Christian and God-fearing person who has the Spirit within him, (8:08) you’re going to do what God has asked you to do, even though it rubs you the wrong way. (8:15) Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly.

(8:25) Do not be wise in your own estimation. Never repay evil for evil to anyone. And of course, (8:33) the flesh argues with that.

And we’re of the flesh, we grew up in the flesh, and there are (8:41) times when we yield to the flesh. And so, that’s, as Christians, we’re relying on Jesus to (8:51) absorb us. Where there’s now therefore no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus.

(8:58) That’s what Paul would tell us, because Jesus is interceding for us. And as long as we’re (9:04) walking in the light as he is in the light, his blood will continue to cleanse us. So, (9:10) sometimes when the flesh gets the best of us, or we allow the flesh to influence us, (9:19) it’s not going to condemn us from the standpoint that, that’s not the way we were walking.

(9:26) Our manner of life is, I want to be a Christian, and I want to do what God asked me to do. (9:31) Please forgive me, God. And that’s what is being said in John, because he says, (9:40) we will sin, but if we ask for forgiveness of sins, he will give it to us.

And so, (9:47) any questions or comments concerning what I just got to say? (9:52) But, so, we’re defying God. And one of the reasons why I like the word defy is because (10:01) it helps me comprehend why I need to be reconciled to God. Do you understand? Can you follow me? (10:14) Why do I need to be reconciled to God? It’s because I’ve been defying him.

I’ve been denying him. (10:21) I like that concept of defiance. I don’t know what in the world is happening here.

But anyway, (10:34) if you’ve been defied, you’ve been alienated. If you’re with friends who defy you, (10:45) what do you do? You get angry. You get upset.

Well, what does Paul say in the start of Romans (10:54) first chapter? God’s wrath is revealed against those who have defiled or defied him. So, (11:08) when he’s talking about those things, that’s actually him being defied. His creation is (11:16) defying him.

He’s angry. He’s upset. We’ve just alienated him.

We need to be reconciled to him (11:28) because we have defied him and we’ve insulted him. We’ve upset him because we defied him. (11:36) So, we need to be reconciled.

And how are we going to be reconciled? By his mercy and by his grace (11:45) and extending to us the gospel. And so, we have the opportunity to be reconciled to him (11:51) and him forgiving us, defying him. That’s one of the things that I reason why I like that word (12:01) defy.

So, he’s going on here and he says, respect, verse 17, never repay evil for evil for anyone or (12:15) to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all people, if possible. So far as it depends on (12:24) you, be at peace with all people.

Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath (12:35) of God, for it is written, vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord. But if your enemy is (12:44) hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink, for in so doing you will heap burning coals (12:51) on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with God.

So, the flesh, (13:02) and we wrestle with the flesh because (13:08) of becoming Christians, we have died to the flesh, we have died to the sin, and we’re being able to (13:15) say, I ignore you flesh, I am going to do what God wants me to do. And that’s the reason why Paul (13:22) starts out this chapter by saying, therefore, I urge you brothers and sisters to be by the mercies (13:29) of God to present your bodies as a living and holy sacrifice acceptable to God, which is your (13:37) spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, which would be the flesh, (13:44) but be transformed by the renewing of your mind by accepting what God has to say about (13:52) how you need to respond to your offenses, by the renewing of your mind so that you may prove (14:02) that the will of God, prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

(14:13) So, we have that opportunity to bring ourselves in line with God. And so, we’ve been walking along (14:23) in the flesh, and we realize that I’ve been defying God. I don’t want to be on the wrong (14:30) side of God.

I want the benefits that God has. So, how do I do that? He’s extending to me (14:41) the olive branch. He’s extending to me the opportunity to be reconciled to Him.

(14:47) And so, He’s provided that sacrifice of that atonement, and this is where the word atonement (14:54) really means what it means, and we can use it for being atoned by the blood of Christ and by (15:01) His sacrifice and Him saying, God, accept Him. So, we become Christian, we become disciples of Jesus, (15:11) and we’re baptized into Christ. So, we have the atonement.

Any observations or questions (15:19) on that part? Because you’re getting, Steve, you’re getting Cainism. (15:26) I recognize that. You’re getting Cainism.

(15:30) And I want you to know that I know that you’re getting Cainism, because we’re getting in now (15:37) into some real heavy stuff. Chapters 13 and 14 are very heavy. (15:46) And I don’t know if you’ve really gotten into it and considered the ramifications that are (15:55) in these two chapters, but it’s there.

Just think about it. Our brotherhood wrestles with it (16:04) very much. And sometimes I wonder if we’ve given too much thought to the Restoration Movement.

(16:16) I appreciate the Restoration Movement, and I honor it, especially at the Lord’s Supper, (16:22) the baptism, and the instrumental music, and things like that, because the Restoration Movement (16:28) come up with this stuff that helps us go back to the first century Christians and how they (16:35) worship God. Because sometimes I think they get a little bit overboard. I don’t know if you agree (16:42) with me or not, but I think they get a little bit overboard.

And quite frankly, that’s one of the (16:52) reasons why I’m thinking about bringing my whole membership here besides just open Bible class. (17:00) I’m thinking about bringing my whole membership. Anyway, that’s between us.

(17:11) That’s just between us. So let’s get into chapter 13, because it starts to get real, real (17:21) deep. And this is where we start arguing with our flesh.

The flesh says one thing, (17:31) and God is saying, do it this way, do it this way. But the flesh, and we’re going to argue with (17:40) them. We’re going to argue with them, but God says, don’t argue with me.

I’m sharing with you (17:49) exactly what I want you to do. I’ve created you, and I’ve instilled in you your spirit (17:58) and your mind. And this is the way I want you to live your life and deal with your public.

(18:07) This is the way I want you to do it. And if you do it this way, you will be pleasing me, (18:13) you will be glorifying me, and I will have the opportunity to glorify you. (18:20) Do you remember what Jesus, just as he was praying before he went to the cross, (18:27) Father, glorify thy name.

And God comes back and says, I have glorified my name, (18:36) and I’m glorifying you too. So we want to demonstrate God’s power. We don’t demonstrate (18:46) God’s power.

We want us to recognize God’s power being the way he does it, (18:54) so as he’s reflecting on that. So right off the start, chapter 13, right off the very beginning, (19:05) every person is to be subject to the governing authorities. Is there any (19:14) thing there that goes against that? Oh, man.

I grew up (19:31) in the church. I know the arguments. I know.

My dad used to use them against me all the time. (19:40) But, you know, he’s saying be subject to the governing authorities. Now, argue with it.

(20:00) I’m saying there’s no arguing. He doesn’t give us an escape clause. He says, (20:10) every person is to be subject to the governing authorities.

Why? Because of God’s divine (20:19) intervention, providence, and preservation. I love that phrase. Why? For there is no authority (20:30) except from God and those which exist are established by God.

Argue with that. (20:40) The flesh will definitely argue with that, but we’re supposed to accept that. (20:52) So the question then, obviously, is why are they allowing Iran’s government, (21:02) the Muslims, why are they allowing Putin in Russia? Why are they allowing things going on (21:09) in Africa? Why are they allowing things to do these things? But remember, when God was dealing (21:18) with Egypt concerning the Israelites, what did he say he did with Pharaoh? He raised him up (21:31) for this very reason.

For this very reason. Are we to argue with the reason? God’s divine (21:45) intervention, providence, and preservation. Paul believes in that 100%.

(21:53) I can’t remember where God created and destroyed Egypt. (21:59) Right, exactly. (22:01) He worked out his will.

(22:03) Right, but Israel, when they were sinning, he was allowing the various nations to come in and carry (22:10) them away and destroy them. Babylon, you know. And of course, the Israelites were arguing, (22:17) why are you doing this? Well, we know why, don’t we? Because they were sinning.

(22:24) They were committing more sin than the Canaanites did that God was condemning, (22:31) and allowing the Israelites to go in and chase them out and destroy the nations that were in (22:38) Canaan. (22:39) And the exception there is, the Israelites had a divine communication from God. (22:50) Right, right.

(22:51) So they should have known that. (22:53) They should have known that. And that’s what Paul is pointing out there in chapter 9, where he talks (23:00) about circumcision.

And then he goes on and explains about how God blessed them with all (23:13) these various things, providing them with the insights. Psalms 147 points out all the various (23:20) things God did for the Israelites, and then the psalmist finishes it up saying God did this for (23:27) Israel and did not do that for any other nation. He was focusing in on Israel.

(23:35) And so, that’s it. (23:38) So, right from the very beginning, every person is to be subject to the governing authorities. (23:47) For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

(23:55) And what is happening in Minnesota, Wisconsin? What about these cities that are…​ (24:11) They accept the people and their sins. What is it? (24:17) Say again? (24:18) Sanctuary cities. (24:19) Yeah, sanctuary cities.

(24:23) They’re sinning against God. They’re, you know, they’re definitely defying God. (24:31) I agree with you on the government saying that when Biden got voted in, (24:40) he thought it was the end of the world.

Like, how can this happen? They cheated. (24:44) But by having the absolute worst president ever, God shined a light on all the evil (24:56) evil people were doing, such as USAID and all this fraud in Minnesota. (25:04) We would never have known that if it were not for somebody as low as Biden being in there.

(25:11) So, it was God’s will. Even though we hated it, it was God’s will he was in there. (25:17) So we could see how bad things actually were.

(25:22) Yeah. And I think that also in Romans, he points out the fact that (25:28) God was showing his power by putting up with this. He was putting up with this (25:35) so that he could demonstrate his power and his love.

You have something that you want? (25:42) Okay. So, he’s doing these things. Anything else? (25:48) You know, when I was on Facebook, I kept hearing a lot that (26:01) if the government is not right, then it should be overdone.

And they were trying to convince that (26:20) the government here is wrong in some of the things. Well, I would agree with that. However, (26:29) what kind of a government are they wanting? I asked myself, what kind of government are they (26:37) wanting? Do they want a government that is going to really take away their freedom? (26:47) That they’re saying that, well, the government is taking their freedom away.

(26:52) Well, they still have freedom. (26:57) And if you listen to, like in Texas, there are several counties in Texas that are starting to be (27:07) governed by Islam. And they’re wanting Sharia law.

(27:14) Another law? I don’t understand that. (27:16) Yeah, Sharia law. They want to put a Sharia law in effect.

(27:22) And so, the people are saying, how can you stand by and allow this to happen? (27:38) So, one of these days, we may be faced with Sharia law (27:44) in an Islamic government. So, what are we going to do about that? (27:50) See, we’re arguing against God. We’re defying God.

God is in control. (27:59) Yes, absolutely. And this country is unique, that in our constitution, (28:06) the air that we breathe is sour, we can rebuke.

(28:10) There you go. (28:19) Yeah, those who are, I think it’s just, (28:26) the villagers had a difficult time with this passage as well. (28:30) I mean, you can look at that in your life.

(28:36) Well, one of the big problems that you brought up with the founding father and dad was this very (28:45) question. How do they have any right to usurp the ruling authority? And that’s what they’re writing (29:01) about, this very question. Do they have a right or not? No.

But, (29:11) there’s this guy that says, does he listen to Cainism? (29:20) In this chapter 12, chapter 13, individually, we do not have the right (29:29) to usurp government. As an individual, I’m going to be subject to the governing authority. (29:38) Whether it be Rome at the time that this was written, that’s what he was saying, (29:45) be subject to Rome.

Whether it be any Cainist authority, our responsibility as far as it does (29:58) if there is a higher authority, obviously, and that’s where the founding fathers were going. (30:05) If that authority tells us to do something that’s wrong, as the apostles called the hierarchy, (30:13) Jewish hierarchy, whether we do what you do is right to you or not, we need to follow God, (30:21) not man. But individually, we are to be subject as far as we can to the ruling authority.

(30:31) But the authorities, as it will say here, are God’s agents for wrath. So God moves around with (30:41) authority. And so the American Revolution, from an individual standpoint, we have all kinds of (30:53) problems.

But as God creating and destroying nations, that’s what he does. And whomever he uses. (31:03) Right.

With this particular thought of mine, this is another Cain thought. (31:14) Iran’s government is being challenged by its own individuals, citizens. And so they have (31:32) revolts and they have demonstrations and they get together.

And Iran has no compunction (31:39) about killing them. And he just murders them like you wouldn’t believe. (31:45) Tens of thousands.

How many of them are Christians? If you’re a Christian, you are (31:54) among those who are being slaughtered. You’re not going to be demonstrating. (32:01) You will not be among those in Minnesota or Wisconsin.

(32:07) No. Their demonstrations, the demonstrators aren’t vile. They don’t have any weapons.

(32:16) I know, but because the law says they can’t have them. (32:29) My question is, if there’s Christians among them (32:35) being slaughtered, why are they defying God? (33:03) I don’t know, but we’re still arguing with God. (33:08) And God is telling us to do it this way.

Why? Because he is the avenger and he will take (33:16) advantage of it. Or not take advantage. What is the word that he uses? (33:29) So we’ve got to believe in God.

You just got to believe in God. (33:35) And that’s the whole problem. You see, if you don’t believe in God, you’re defying him.

(33:41) So we’ve got to believe in God. What pleases God? (33:54) Hebrews, the 11th chapter. What pleases God? Who pleased God in Hebrews, the 11th chapter? (34:10) Enoch.

Right. So what pleases God? To believe that he is and that he’s a rewarder of those (34:20) who diligently seek him. So.

By the way, the light on that phrase we use a lot, (34:29) or runs through a lot. And we are in the light. (34:39) Struggling with this, this walking in the light.

Struggling with this from God’s perspective, (34:48) through the word, this walking in the light. Our actions based on that, (34:56) whether they end up being right actions or not, we’re cleansing from that. Right.

We’re striving (35:03) to understand what God wants us to do. Right. And Paul finishes out, writes in Philippians, (35:13) the fourth chapter, what does he say? I have experienced all of these things, (35:17) and I have been able to do what God wants me to do.

Based on what? (35:23) I can do all things through him who strengthens me. So let’s just wait and wrestle with it when (35:37) we experience it and allow God to strengthen us. And we can do all things through him who (35:45) strengthens us.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

There’s things that we can do. Right. There’s (36:00) things that we can do.

And we don’t have to be like the Amish. The Amish definitely are. (36:12) You know, they changed last election.

Say again? They changed last election. Yeah. Well, they did.

(36:20) That’s why Trump got in. He got in a lot of places. But they were persuaded to vote.

(36:30) They’re conscientious objectors. They are conscientious objectors. And that’s really (36:35) why they don’t vote, is because they believe this, that God is the one who puts people in (36:42) and out.

And that’s being 100% conscientious objectors. So anyway, yeah. But you see, (37:00) this is a difficult situation here.

Are we going to argue with God or are we going to (37:10) go along with him? We’re going to defy him because he is putting out there this very (37:18) assurance he is in control of us. So I don’t lose any sleep over this. I don’t.

I don’t lose any (37:27) sleep over it at all. But I do concern myself with the Islamic movement. And this Ramaswami, (37:37) I don’t like that last name.

That last name tells me Islam. (37:47) Huh? He’s Indian. I know.

And Hindu maybe. But Ramaswami. (37:57) Right.

Right. That last name does not help me any. So anyway.

(38:13) That’s true. (38:14) I was just wondering if the founders could be allowed today. What would have been their reaction (38:30) to saying that we’re accepting the Islamic people who support Islam into the government? (38:45) What would they be saying? Well, you know, what was America founded on? Freedom of religion.

(39:00) And some of the colonies were intolerant. They definitely were intolerant. You’re either Catholic (39:10) or you’re pilgrim, Lutheran.

They were intolerant and they would excommunicate you and they would (39:23) kick you out of the colony. And a lot of people that were kicked out of the colony became (39:29) the individuals that would roam throughout the countryside establishing their own (39:37) establishments. So we know that it was not a perfect setup at all.

But they were very intolerant. (39:49) And but anyway, every person is to be subject to the governing authorities. We’re going to (40:00) we’re defying God.

For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are (40:07) established by God. Let’s accept that. Therefore, whoever resists authority has opposed the (40:15) ordinance of God.

You’re opposing God. You’re defying him. And so and they who have opposed (40:29) will receive condemnation upon themselves.

Then he goes on and he talks about the role of the (40:43) rulers. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. (40:55) So what is good behavior? According to the Thessalonian writer, (41:04) to mind your own business, get a job, be at peace with one another, (41:16) be subject to one another.

So he’s pointing out here, (41:25) if we’re doing that, the government can’t be against us. (41:32) It’s a federal rule. (41:36) Logic.

There again, we’re putting in there. (41:47) See, we’re arguing with God already. We’re arguing with the scriptures already.

(41:53) Yeah, we’re arguing. So we’re arguing. So in that respect, (42:04) we’re arguing about something that may never happen.

(42:12) And why lose sleep over it? (42:18) That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. That’s what Hinduism is all about.

(42:25) That’s where we got it. (42:28) What, me worry? I love that magazine. (42:34) You know what I’m referring to? Mad magazine.

(42:40) What, me worry? (42:44) So anyway, our time is up. I appreciate your tolerance of me. (42:53) Thank you so much. (42:54)